Appointed chief executive of TAG Heuer in 2020, Frédéric Arnault is often described as a son of Bernard Arnault, now the world’s richest man thanks to his controlling stake in LVMH. But the younger Arnault, who was just 25 when he took the job, is notable amongst watch industry bosses for his background.

In contrast to the marketing or sales background that characterise most executives in the business, Mr Arnault has a degree in computational and applied mathematics from École Polytechnique, a French science and technology university with a long list of accomplished alumni, including Nobel laureates, presidents, and captains of industry (including the senior Arnault).

Mr Arnault has been in the top job for two years, while it typically takes three to five years to develop an all new watch and even longer for a movement. As a result, his vision for TAG Heuer has yet to fully materialise in its products, but hints of his outsider’s perspective and inclination towards technology are already apparent.

This has manifested itself in TAG Heuer’s Connected smartwatch and its solar-powered dive watch, but more notably in its flagship mechanical offering, the Carrera Plasma, an unorthodox jewelled chronograph that makes liberal use of synthetic diamonds.

Synthetic diamonds grown to fit perfectly into the case of the Plasma, which is made of anodised aluminium

But the most tantalising creations lie perhaps two to three years in the future, given that one of Mr Arnault’s first big hires was the duo of Carole Forestier-Kasapi and Edouard Mignon, now TAG Heuer Movements Director and LVMH Chief Innovation Officer respectively.

In their previous jobs, the pair helped shaped movement development and industrialisation at Cartier and its parent Richemont, creating cutting-edge complications utilising exotic materials but also mass-produced in-house movements.

For an insight into where TAG Heuer is heading, I spoke with Mr Arnault at LVMH Watch Week that took place earlier in January.

Frédéric Arnault (FA): I think we saw each other at Watches & Wonders…

SJX: Indeed, Watches and Wonders [where you showed] the Plasma. Are concept watches like the Plasma going to be a recurring theme?

FA: Yes, but now we don’t consider them as concept watches the same way we had them in the past.

SJX: Like Mikrogirder and so on…

FA: We will sell this; not in significant volumes, but allocated to select customers.

SJX: You will continue with the experimentation with different materials?

FA: Of course. And even with the Plasma. You’ll see a new Plasma at Watches & Wonders, along with high horology – new movements and new complications.

The Plasma has a polycrystalline diamond dial set with baguette-cut diamonds

SJX: Something that is unconventional for a luxury watch brand is the Connected watch. It is in a way your brainchild because Connected was the first thing you took on when you joined the brand. What is the rationale for Connected, and where do you see it going?

FA: We have a unique position in the smartwatch segment. We are the most elegant offering and we also take inspiration from traditional watchmaking. And we see that’s what our customers love about the Connected – it doesn’t look like a smartwatch. We can track the watch faces wearers use and the most popular are those inspired by the world of mechanical watches.

But we do it with the best technology that we can have, from the chipset to the operating system. Every day we track usage of the Connected, we look at the numbers, like how many people were wearing a Connected watch yesterday. That allows us to ensure we develop features that adds value for the wearer on a day-to-day basis.

SJX: So consumers like digital faces with hands, more or less.

FA: With hands of course. Or even skeletonised dials where you can see some parts of the movement. In fact, we will go one step further to make complications for the Connected that look mechanical but are impossible from a mechanical perspective. We can create them on a screen and our team will have a lot of fun designing them.

SJX: Where do you want to take it in, say 10 or 15 years?

FA: I would love to tell you that we have a 10- or 15-year vision for the Connected watch. That’s true for our mechanical watches where we have a roadmap going up to 10 years.

But the pace is much faster for the Connected, especially for the movement, and we have to react to the market’s evolution. There’s a large ecosystem of partners for Connected, while the competition is going very fast. So we have to be much more agile in the development process, in pivoting, and making product solutions.

What I can say is that the vision for Connected has been set. It’s about continuous improvement. We have two sizes. We’ll do a launch every two years. We have some key themes designed into our watch faces, like health and wellness, sports, golf, triathlon. We have strong ideas and a strong strategy, while in terms of execution, we have to be very agile.

SJX: I guess this must be 15 years ago, TAG Heuer made [the Monaco Sixty-Nine] that was one half-mechanical and the other half-electronic, with a hinged case. Is this something one day you will bring back? Combining Connected and mechanical in one watch?

FA: Never say never, but I don’t think both worlds are compatible. If you want the best in Connected technology, it has to be fully Connected. If you want the best in mechanical technology, it has to be fully mechanical. And we don’t like compromise.

Frederic Arnault in Singapore. Image – TAG Heuer

SJX: As for your traditional watch line-up, I remember when we met at Watches & Wonders you mentioned the brand is segmenting itself according to movements – Sellita, Kenissi, in-house, solar, quartz. Can you tell us more about this?

FA: The movement is heart of the brand; key to the quality of the watch. So we are segmenting the offering into three movement types.

Quartz – standard and solar. But solar quartz will take more and more space going forward because we believe it’s an amazing value-add for the customer.

For mechanical, there’s the three-hand [at the entry-level], where we want to bring the best quality to all of our three-hand movements. We are working on eventually having a five-year warranty [for three-hand], largely for our own movements.

And then there’s the chronograph. We are concentrating all of our efforts on the Heuer 02, which is now taking more and more space in the collection [within the] Carrera and Monaco. And we will also develop complications on the Heuer 02. You will see one complication this year, another one next year. They will be simple complications but ones that tell an amazing story.

And last but not least, we are considering working a comeback in the high-horology segment with ground-breaking, innovative complications. You will have a small preview of it [at Watches & Wonders] this year.

One of the brand’s more traditional chronographs, the Carrera Chronograph “60th Anniversary”

SJX: Ground-breaking complications must be one of the reasons you hired Carole Forestier-Kasapi and Edouard Mignon. In their previous roles they developed avant-garde complications and I assume that is where you want to go. Can you share your vision for this?

FA: I can definitely share a vision. We will stay in a territory where we are legitimate and credible. For that there’s one complication that is fundamental for us, which will be the focus of all of our efforts. It’s the chronograph of course.

Before doing wristwatches, Heuer did stopwatches. Our first wristwatches were chronographs. We were the first to do a micrograph that measured a hundred of a second – more than a hundred years ago. There’s so many things we can do with the chronograph, so before doing anything else we will really focus our efforts there.

An upscale rendition of the Heuer 02 with the bonus of a flyback feature found in the new Monza

SJX: I look forward to that. The last question returns to the Plasma. This is probably the first high-end mechanical watch with synthetic diamonds as decoration. What was the appeal of the material?

FA: Ever since I joined the brand, I saw the “avant-garde” in our name. This idea is so powerful and we needed to make it a reality in terms of product. So we need to come up with avant-garde technical innovations every year.

But the idea also gives us a lot of freedom: avant-garde in the movement, avant-garde in materials, avant-garde in design. Why not avant-garde jewellery? But what is avant-garde jewellery?

Naturally, it has to be lab-grown diamonds. Watch brands have not yet figured out the right way of entry in this field. So that was also a reason we went into this segment.

We wanted to create something new and not just replace natural diamonds with lab-grown diamonds. We realised we needed to leverage this technology to design something that will be impossible to do with natural diamonds.

You saw the first expression of the concept. There are so many other expressions we could have done. And there so many more expressions of the idea that you will see from us in the future. [laughs]

The enormous diamond crown of the Plasma

SJX: In luxury goods, the convention is natural diamonds. What do you say to the consumer who believes that natural diamonds are a must-have?

FA: We sold already quite a few of these pieces and the lab-grown diamond aspect was one of the key points of appeal, especially with this execution. If you want this design, you have no solution in natural diamonds. You cannot have a diamond crown of 2.5 carats, a functional component that’s one block of diamond. You cannot have this dial in this polycrystalline diamond – it simply doesn’t exist.

SJX: Will synthetic diamond be used for functional components in the movement one day?

FA: We are working on it.

SJX: Thank you for your time.

]]> https://watchesbysjx.com/2022/12/interview-jeremy-lim-cortina-watch.html Wed, 28 Dec 2022 03:11:10 +0000 https://watchesbysjx.com/?p=146320 With 2022 revenue of S$716.9 million (equivalent to US$532 million), Cortina Watch is one of the world’s biggest watch retailers. It was founded in 1972 as a single store but has grown into a regional giant with stores across Southeast Asia as well as outposts in Taiwan and Australia. Cortina marked its 50th anniversary this […]]]>

With 2022 revenue of S$716.9 million (equivalent to US$532 million), Cortina Watch is one of the world’s biggest watch retailers. It was founded in 1972 as a single store but has grown into a regional giant with stores across Southeast Asia as well as outposts in Taiwan and Australia.

Cortina marked its 50th anniversary this year with a slew of limited editions that reflect its importance, including the Patek Philippe Calatrava ref. 5057 made specifically for it. Though publicly listed, the company remains controlled by the founding Lim family, with the third generation having recently joined the business. A crucial member of management is Jeremy Lim, the younger son of Cortina founder Anthony Lim. Jeremy helms the business alongside his siblings Raymond and Sharon.

I spoke with Jeremy recently to uncover the factors behind the longevity and success of Cortina.

Three generations of the Lim family, with Jeremy Lim second from left. Image – Cortina Watch

SJX: When Cortina was founded 50 years ago by your father, it was one of many watch stores in Singapore. But now Cortina is one of the few left, in fact it’s one of the biggest in the region. What is the secret to the longevity and success?

Jeremy Lim (JL): We were lucky that we had a lot of help from the family when my dad started the business with my mom. [My brother] Raymond started early in the business, then my sister got interested in the business as well, and subsequently I was reeled in.

The old school method of family business was just one or two shops so the founder can keep his eye on them. But with our extended family it allowed us to grow in the region. We have an aunt that runs the business in Hong Kong and initially we also had an uncle in Malaysia. And we were able to build in places like Taiwan, Thailand, and Indonesia with our local partners there.

Then we brought in professionals to run the business after we went public [in 2002]. This transition was very, very important. If the transition did not happen, I would say we probably be stuck with a few stores.

SJX: But it wasn’t all smooth sailing for 50 years. Many of the retailers that were once big names are no longer around.

JL: Like all businesses we had our ups and downs. There’s no single secret that makes things work. We were lucky the family had a passion for the business, whereas it might have been that the next generation at other retailers lost touch with the watch business.

The Patek Philippe ref. 5057G made for Cortina’s 50th anniversary

SJX: Family is clearly central to your business. And it seems like the case for many important players across the industry. Many big retailers are family-owned and also some of the most important watch brands like Patek Philippe.

JL: Exactly, Wempe, Bucherer, Seddiqi…

SJX: In fact, Watches of Switzerland is public and owned by institutions but it is the exception rather than the norm.

JL: This business is very much about personal relationships. When you have the family [that owns a watch brand] in town, they get a lot of attention from us and we can do business. They can speak for the brand without having to go through levels of management. The working relationship is easy; they keep their word when they say yes.

We also deal with professional managers, but over the decades as we work with certain brands or groups of brands, it seems like every three years they change the managing director and every 20 years they change the CEO. When that happens, we don’t know the next person is going to continue on certain things that we agreed upon [with his or her predecessor].

Jeremy Lim at the Patek Philippe boutique in ION Orchard operated by Cortina Watch. Image – Cortina Watch

SJX: So you’re saying is it’s easier to build a long-term relationship with a fellow family-owned business because both of you are in for the long haul?

JL: Exactly. It’s why the working relationship with, for example, Chopard or Patek Philippe is fantastic. When we have a problem, we drop each other an email or call, then we try to find the middle ground. Decisions will be made, and they’ll be on it. It is not necessarily easier, but at least we know that there is a long-term perspective in terms of what we do. And I think it’s just mutual respect [for each other as family-owned companies].

For example, [a major, family-owned brand] decided that they needed to reduce their retail network so they closed one of our points-of-sale. It was a big blow but there was respect in terms of how it was done. We were given a year’s advance notice.

And it so happened that the closure was scheduled for March 2020 and the pandemic happened – lockdown and everything ceased. So I made a call to the brand and asked for an extension so we had time to pivot. They were generous enough to say yes. That made sure our people still had their jobs in the midst of the pandemic. Not all brands do it this way.

Karl-Friedrich and Christine Scheufele of Chopard with Mr and Mrs Anthony Lim. Image – Cortina Watch

SJX: How are you helping the next generation of the Lim family develop such relationships with the brands?

JL: We try to be inclusive with the next generation. For example, when we had lunch recently with [Karl-Friedrich] Scheufele and dinner with [Thierry] Stern, we included them.

I’m open to letting the next generation coming in to learn how I do things because I was given this chance when I joined. My brother gave me a lot of opportunities to prove myself. And my parents also give us a lot of chances, even when we made bad decisions.

[The next generation] needs to be curious about what we do, how we do it, and how we make decisions. Decisions are not always correct, but if it was a bad decision then you make sure it was a calculated risk.

I was given the opportunity, and I don’t see why I should not be giving that opportunity to the next generation. The more they get involved, the quicker I can I can retire. [laughs]

The unique Patek Philippe Dome Clock depicting the Singapore skyline made for Cortina’s anniversary

SJX: Earlier you mentioned the ups and downs of the business. A recession seems to be on the cards after many good years. Maybe because of the goods years, brands have been closing retailers and opening more of their own stores. What are your thoughts about these happenings that seem to happen with every economic cycle?

JL: We always try to work with as many brands as possible. Because one day, we know some brands will close us and run their own boutiques – we have gone through that before. Or even now there are some plans by some groups that want to do their multi-brand boutiques.

We are ready for the challenge, because we have embraced a lot of brands. Sometimes our partners say we have too many brands in the store. But it’s a defence mechanism because it only means that we are not reliant on a group of brands or one or two brands. If a brand decides to go it alone, we can replace them. And that is also what we are doing with Sincere; it’s a platform to embrace the independent brands.

SJX: This is basically diversification…

JL: Yes, diversify, but not outside of the watch industry. We are still very much into watches, but we don’t want to be reliant on one single or group.

SJX: Next year might not be good for industries outside of watchmaking either…

JL: We have had a good run. I think some in our business have forgotten what a recession is. But we should be fine because the demand I see demand [on the primary market] is still strong and it’s not just going to be gone overnight. As long as the industry doesn’t increase production like crazy, the industry should hold up quite well.

The Cartier Baignoire for Cortina’s anniversary

SJX: Last question. The big European retailers like Watches of Switzerland and Bucherer, have been expanding out of their traditional markets in the last few years.  Do you have plans to continue expanding, even outside of your traditional markets?

JL: The question is, what is our traditional market? Southeast Asia? We are already in Taiwan and Australia. So we are already a bit out of our comfort zone.

We go where we see opportunity. Vietnam is important. The emergence of Cambodia gives it potential as well. And there’s still a lot of room to move in Indonesia, where we are already present. And then of course with Franck Muller, Australia is something we can grow.

And what about China? Is there a dominant player in watch retail? Not really. A lot of the important locations are operated by the brands themselves. So China may be a possibility but it’s not something we are thinking about yet.

Expansion is also about control. Are we able to run a company, say, in the United States? I don’t know. I’d probably say no at this point. For one, the time zone difference is huge.

SJX: Is this something you’ll send the next generation to establish?

JL: Maybe it’s too early for them to venture out because it’s been tough for them to gain international experience with the pandemic. They’ve been with the company for three or four years, but two years were wasted because nobody could travel. Hopefully they’ll do that in the next few years. The quicker they take over from me, the more I can play golf. [laughs]

Recently in Singapore for The Anatomy of Beauty, an exhibition dedicated to Vacheron Constantin’s watchmaking over the decades, Christian Selmoni has an encyclopaedic knowledge of the brand. Now the brand’s Style & Heritage Director, Mr Selmoni joined Vacheron Constantin (VC) in January 1992. His tenure of almost 31 years has given him an innate sense of the brand and its philosophy as well as a wide-ranging perspective on its timepieces over the years.

We had a chat with Mr Selmoni to hear more about the brand’s most interesting creations, ranging from the 22”’ observatory-certified tourbillon movements of the 1920s to the modern-day Celestia grand complication.

The interview was edited for length and clarity.

SJX: The Singapore exhibition has a good selection of the complicated, historical, and artisanal. What’s your favourite out of all that?

Christian Selmoni (CS): It’s a tricky question, but one that immediately comes to my mind – the 22”’ tourbillon because I love this this calibre. VC made the movement in the 1920s; around 20 movements were sent for observatory contests.

Once the contests were over, the movements were put in a tray somewhere. Then at the beginning of the 1990s, we made six or seven pocket watches with 22”’ tourbillon movements that had been totally refurbished and decorated. They were made for John Asprey in London. All of the [Asprey pocket watches] were unique, either in material or decoration, and some were set with gems as well.

One of the 22”’ tourbillon pocket watches made for Asprey in the early 1990s

SJX: One of them sold at Phillips not too long ago…

CS: Yes, that’s the one. I love them because they bring us back to observatory contests, which few people remember these days.

The watchmakers who were regulating the movements for the contes were just like Formula 1 drivers. They had their secret recipes for their their own mix of oil since lubrication was key for accuracy. Some preferred to die with their secrets rather than give the recipe to someone else.

But back to the story of the 22”’ movements. Some of them were sold during in the 1920s as finished watches and I’ve seen the records listing the clients, Henry Graves, the Maharajah of Patiala – all great collectors. The movement is something special.

SJX: Do you have any more of these movements left?

CS: Ah… yes, we do. We still have some 19”’ and 22”’ calibres.

SJX: So what are your plans for them?

CS: We haven’t planned anything, but rediscovering such movements from the past, then making cases and dials for them is a good thing if you fully respect the movement. It could be a great initiative to extract something from the past and to make it alive again. But on the other hand, you will have people will say well, what’s the point with this?

A closeup of the tourbillon regulator in the 22”’ movement

SJX: On the topic of custom made watches, every year VC launches a collection of unique Les Cabinotiers watches. Which of those in recent memory was the most interesting?

CS: There are several watches that are really phenomenal, but I absolutely need to start with the Celestia. It is mind blowing.

The Celestia has three gear trains – for mean time, solar time, sidereal time –  23 complications on two faces, while having incredible thinness. And not to forget the quality of the design.

Just so you know, the designer who designed the Celestia was the same one who did the 57260. Emilie [Vuilleumier], who is not with us anymore, was absolutely brilliant because she had a deep understanding of translating watchmaking into clear displays, a rare skill.

The Celestia Calibre 3600

And the Celestia is also special to me because that was the last watch where I was in charge of the development. It’s kind of mad love affair with an absolutely amazing watch.

Did you have others in mind yourself?

SJX: A few comes to mind. One is the 1921 perpetual calendar. It’s not complicated, but I find it an interesting design.

CS: That was not a unique piece, it was a series of 20. We made them in platinum for the Geneva boutique and later in rose gold. It was controversial at the time because we took a model from the past that was never a perpetual but made it a perpetual. It was a strange initiative, but the result was great.

The 1921 perpetual calendar in platinum

SJX: Why don’t you do this more often and add something new to a vintage design?

CS: With the Historiques collection we are paying tribute to the past. We think that it’s better to translate them into the 21st century but respect them in terms of functionality.

SJX: You could do a 222 perpetual.

CS: Yeah, I was thinking of that. Or we can do a Cornes de Vache automatic.

SJX: Exactly [laughs]. Or Cornes de Vache split seconds.

CS: That’s a good discussion to have, to confirm what others like yourself think. I’m not myself too rigid that I don’t change my position. But why not?

SJX: I look forward to that – Cornes de Vache split seconds.

A Briton who has been the Heritage Director at TAG Heuer since March 2021, Nicholas Biebuyck is in charge of the brand’s museum and archives. Like his peers at other brands, Mr Biebuyck’s role goes beyond historical papers and vintage watches. He participates in product development and marketing, while being a brand ambassador, especially in bringing the brand to enthusiasts and collectors.

But Mr Biebuyck also experienced a swathe of the watch industry prior to his role at TAG Heuer. He was previously a watch specialist at Bonhams and then Christie’s before joining Blackbird Watch Manual, a specialist magazine based in Hong Kong. Mr Biebuyck, who now lives in Switzerland with his family, also gained an insight into the art of managing clients with earlier stints as a “Genius” in an Apple Store and then marketing private-jet charters in Africa.

The hand-finished movement in the one-off Monaco Only Watch 2021, a hint of where TAG Heuer might be headed

And so Mr Biebuyck was wearing several hats when he was in Singapore recently during the Formula 1 Grand Prix weekend, when TAG Heuer staged an exhibition dedicated to its history in motorsports.

We got the opportunity to quiz him on several topics, including where TAG Heuer is headed and how the brand balances its glamorous motorsports history with its avant-garde innovation. And we also gain his thoughts on the vintage Heuer market, especially after the high watermark of the Heuer thematic auction in 2017.

SJX: TAG Heuer’s modern-day identity consists of two distinct, contrasting strands. One is avant-garde and contemporary watches like the V4 and Plasma, and the other is 1960s vintage-inspired like Monaco and Carrera. You could say they have different audience entirely – how do you reconcile this into a unified brand?

Nicholas Biebuyck (NB): I think the key to this particular topic is to look at the brand as it is today under LVMH. Before that, from 1860 to 1982, it was a family-run business. Jack was really the one who moved the business post-1958, particularly post-1962 when he took over a majority stake.

Then 1982, during the Quartz Crisis, we went through these economic challenges. We got acquired by Piaget, which restructured the business and cut it to the bone. And then under Techniques d’Avant Garde [TAG], we were effectively a marketing company that happened to make watches.

But with LVMH and Bernard Arnault, it’s clear that they have great sympathy for brand’s heritage and the stories it can tell. Each successive CEO then laid the foundations we have today.

The Carrera Plasma Tourbillon, a showcase of the possibilities of synthetic diamond

In the first few years Jean-Christophe Babin [today the chief executive of Bulgari] focused on high-end watchmaking. He wanted the brand to be desirable and pushed TAG to its ultimate execution in terms of technology. Admittedly some of the watches were very much concepts, but they did help us from a brand awareness and prestige perspective.

Then we have Jean-Claude Biver, who was very much leaning into the heritage component, moving us to the middle of the pack in price, and really emphasising the storytelling.

Then we have Stephen Bianchi. He’s someone who I greatly admire; he’s the first CEO I’ve met who has great sympathy and passion for the product but also a profound understanding of how to run a business. He really cleaned up the commercial component of the business.

So now we have this great foundation for Frédéric [Arnault] to build on. He is doing a fantastic job of balancing these two factors, because we’ve got to thread the needle. Heritage can be a both huge asset but also a burden, so to find the middle ground is tricky but we’ve done a great job.

It’s easy today for a brand to take a vintage watch, scan it, model it in 3D, and then press a button and out comes the one-to-one remake. It’s not particularly creative and it’s not particularly innovative. It’s far better to take the philosophical ideals of what a product or brand represented originally and then embrace that in a contemporary sense.

Look at Carrera Plasma, it’s a product that uses the bones of the classic Carrera case that goes back 1963 but in aluminium, an unusual material for watchmaking, along with a tourbillon, carbon hairspring, and lab-grown diamonds, particularly the polycrystalline diamond for the dial. It’s a really powerful story that combines technology and heritage.

The synthetic diamond dial of the Carrera Plasma

SJX: You mentioned TAG Heuer’s use of new concepts and technology; obviously [TAG Heuer Movements Director] Carole Forestier and [LVMH Chief Innovation Officer] Edouard Mignon both play a big role here.

Their work at their previous employer was very up avant-garde in terms of materials and technology – some of it was so advanced they didn’t have a chance to be rolled out. Perhaps some of their great ideas will realised at TAG Heuer. How does this really cutting-edge stuff fit into the brand?

NB: I can’t stress it highly enough, but working with Carol Kasapi is one of the greatest joys of being at TAG Heuer. She is a true visionary in watchmaking. I think her legacy is not fully understood right now, because so much of it was achieved behind closed doors.

That’s especially true when you look at the move towards in-house movements in her previous role. It looked so risky in the mid-2000s, especially for mid-priced brands. Everyone thought it was insane to go in-house. Today, one of the strongest attributes of [several brands Carole worked with] is in-house movements. Most people are not aware of how much Carole and Edouard contributed the decision to do that, especially her ability to industrialise movement production.

So for them to be with us is just the most incredible opportunity. I’m proud that I’m able to spend an hour week with Carole discussing watchmaking. We have these reflections every week on long-term product development and also specific projects we are working on.

Obviously I can’t share too much, but you can see some of her work as reimagining what fine watchmaking means for TAG Heuer. This will not some crazy escapement innovation or a chronograph coupling device that is impossible to industrialise. We are thinking about what we stand for as a brand, where we come from, and how to make her ideas into a reliable, tangible product that is widely available.

The Heuer Calibre 02, a workhorse in TAG Heuer’s current stable of in-house movements

SJX: Would it be fair to say that the Monaco Only Watch in 2021 represents where TAG Heuer is going in the future? A blend of old and new and technology and classical watchmaking. It had hand finishing in the movement, a vintage-inspired design with a modern components and materials.

NB: The Monaco Only Watch was very much a baby step in that direction – crawling before we walk, before we can run. It had to be developed in a very short time frame. We had to operate within the current Monaco collection, but we pushed it as far as we possibly could in order to tell a different story. We also wanted maximum transparency about our suppliers who played a part in the construction of the watch, like Andre Martinez who did the hand painting.

Only Watch is an incredible opportunity for us, since we have effectively unlimited creativity with a very respectable budget. Basically, it’s going to CEO saying, ‘We’re thinking of doing this, can we have this money?’ And because it’s for a great cause, Frédéric is extremely supportive.

So yes, Only Watch 2021 was a little nod in that direction, but for 2023 you’re going to see something that really redefines us as a fine-watchmaking brand, which will show you what our future can look like.

Monaco Only Watch 2021

SJX: So now let’s talk about your job of Heritage Director. TAG Heuer is a brand with a lot of history in motorsports and chronographs, and the heritage department has played a key role in getting the word out. What are your plans for the museum and heritage department?

NB: As Heritage Director there’s a few key components to the job. Number one is to secure the historical material, that means around 3,000 watches, around 100,000 paper assets, or another thousand items such as racing suits and helmets. We preserve, audit, inventory, and secure them.

The next step is share all that in a physical sense, that means expanding the museum. We plan to refurbish it next year to get it ready for international exhibitions. We’re looking to create a digital platform to share more of our paper archives, which are now being digitised and analysed for that.

Another component is collectors’ engagement. TAG Heuer is pretty good at engaging collectors, but with other manufacturers really expanding the collector’s engagement, we need to keep pace. Collectors form a small portion of clients, but they’re very vocal and they’re very much tastemakers. We can see how powerful they can be in steering the direction and the perception of the brand, so clearly we have to engage with them more.

Last is helping with authentic storytelling in the creation of products. I don’t really have formal responsibility in that area, that’s really more the work of the product team. But I can help them at the start of the process to develop an idea, send them pictures for inspiration, this kind of thing. And then when it comes to the press release I support with the historical and archival material.

SJX: What about like collector-oriented steps other brands have taken, like archive extracts, certificates? Are these on the cards as well?

NB: When it comes to extracts, the first thing to know is that we are be very open and we can say we simply do not have a paper archive listing all of our watches by case number and who they were sold to. During the 1982 Quartz Crisis, a lot of stuff went into the bin and wasn’t to to be seen again. I dream that one day we find a guy who hid things in his attic, just like our siblings at Zenith did.

But at the same time old records on paper are not always gospel. You’ve seen as well as anyone, such records were written all in cursive. It’s very easy to mistake “6” for a “0” or “7” for a “1”. Or you know something was made as a special configuration for a friend of the brand in the 1950s or 1960s but was not recorded with certainty. If you work off that, then all of a sudden you’ve got a digitised version that isn’t 100% accurate.

One of the best-documented vintage Heuer chronographs, the ref. 1158 CHN in 18k yellow gold

As a result, we approach things differently. With my background [in auction houses], I love doing large-scale data analysis on reference sets of good examples of a particular watch. I’ve done them previously for a variety of watches, such as Paul Newmans, fourth-series 2499s. We can do the same TAG Heuer because we have many examples in the archive, we have many known examples in the collector’s community, and we have the record of watches sold at auction.

In the long term, say in 2024, 2025, I would love to be in a position to offer a certificate of authenticity. It will not say your watch is from this date and sold to this retailer, but we will say with a degree of certainty this is what we know about your watch or reference. For example, this was the case number range, this is roughly when it was born, we know that the movement, case, and dial, if they were originally in this configuration. And we provide some documentary evidence to support that.

SJX: And then there are thematic auctions supported by the brand…

NB: As for thematic auctions, you know they can be pretty tricky. We can look at past brand-led auctions to see that they can have some short-term benefits, but it’s very easy as a brand to be accused of manipulating the marketplace.

I’ve survived long enough in the industry because I have a very clear moral compass. I have no interest in playing games in the market. When I bid on a watch for the museum, I will tell collectors. People knew I was biding on the James Garner Carrera for the museum.

If I see something in fantastic condition, I will support it to what I consider a fair market value, but if it goes beyond that to great home, I’m extremely happy since it’s a win for me in either situation.

The all-black Monaco at Phillips in May was a good example. I feel that a watch like that is worth 70,000-80,000 francs. I have a number of examples, but yes, I would like another one, because the provenance was solid and the condition was great. But it went to 113,000 francs and went to someone who I know will treasure the watch – that’s fantastic result for everyone.

Above: The Heuer Monaco “Dark Lord” that sold at Phillips in 2017 for CHF52,500, while a similar example sold for more than double at Phillips’ May 2022 sale

SJX: So you have worked at auction houses, watch magazines, now you work at a brand. How does that varied career help your role in TAG Heuer?

NB: I think I’ve had a virtually unrepeatable career path at this point. It’s no secret I never graduated from university and I have no academic qualifications, but there are no academic qualifications for this job – it’s just passion. You see my connections to watchmaking with what I’ve done at Blackbird and Christie’s.

But it was actually probably my time at the Genius Bar at Apple or working with VistaJet doing business development in West Africa where I learnt about interacting with the client. It also helps that I have a direct understanding of collectors, being a collector myself and having advised collectors. That gives me a good understanding of what people want to see from a brand.

SJX: Your time at an auction house was also when vintage Heuer reached its zenith in 2017 when you had Heuer Parade and a record price of…

NB: The Autavia 2446 for almost 140,000 francs.

SJX: Most agree that was the peak of the market. Where do you think the market is going? 

NB: I 100% agree that we had a huge spike in values in 2017 in and around the thematic auction. We know that results have trailed off since. But when truly exceptional watches come to market, they still make very comparable prices.

Phillips in December 2021 offered a first-execution Autavia 2446 – exactly the same model that performed so well at Heuer Parade – and it achieved a greater result. I was bidding on the watch and I got absolutely blown out of water. They also had very nice Seafarer that performed spectacularly well, then we had second-execution Autavia in June in New York, both did great. When truly important watches in spectacular condition come along, prices are still fantastic.

The Heuer Autavia ref. 2446M “Big Sub” that sold for CHF137,500 at Heuer Parade in November 2017

SJX: So the market has become more discerning?

NB: We can see that not specifically in the vintage world but across the wider market. You know as well as anyone contemporary watchmaking is so easy to buy and sell. You can see if it’s got box and papers or if it’s unpolished. Even a not-particularly-experienced junior specialist at an auction house can take in a Nautilus 5711 with an estimate of 20,000-30,000 and sell it for 150,000. There’s no expertise required to do that.

All the new money that came in to the market during the recovery from COVID and the rise of the crypto – that has obviously cooled off and had an impact on the contemporary watch market. It’s slowed down and a great test of the market will be the auctions in a few week’s time in Geneva and New York.

I really hope that means we are going gonna lose the “hype” watch buyers. I think those buyers who stick around are different, particularly the younger guys, particularly those from Asia. They have a great understanding of the anthropological aspect of watch collecting – the human component. Who wore these watches? Who made them originally? Who were the leaders in the industry? When you look at those elements of collecting, plus the quest for quality and rarity, vintage Heuer is unbelievably well positioned.

]]> https://watchesbysjx.com/2022/06/interview-pierre-rainero-cartier.html Mon, 20 Jun 2022 01:48:03 +0000 https://watchesbysjx.com/?p=136361 Having been at Cartier for almost four decades, Pierre Rainero is part of the institutional memory of a jeweller that was founded in 1847. He is the brand’s “Image, Style and Heritage” director, a post he has held since 2003 and one that also puts him in charge of the Cartier Collection, the brand’s own […]]]>

Having been at Cartier for almost four decades, Pierre Rainero is part of the institutional memory of a jeweller that was founded in 1847.

He is the brand’s “Image, Style and Heritage” director, a post he has held since 2003 and one that also puts him in charge of the Cartier Collection, the brand’s own trove of historical timepieces, objects, and jewels that numbers over 1,500 items – the physical manifestation of the jeweller’s storied history.

Mr Rainero’s title, along with his encyclopaedic knowledge of the house, means he determines whether something – anything really, ranging from watches and jewellery to marketing and strategy – is truly Cartier.

We spoke with Mr Rainero during Watches & Wonders 2022 to unravel the process behind the development of new watches at Cartier. And he also tells us about the time Igor Stravinsky had a Cartier clock thrown at him.

The interview was edited for clarity and length.

SJX: Congratulations – it’s an impressive collection [launched at Watches & Wonders].

Pierre Rainero (PR): Thank you, thank you.

SJX: The Crash is incredible of course.

PR: Indeed, it’s just a step further [than we usually go]… It’s always difficult to rework the Crash because it’s such a statement in itself, so here was a certain finesse needed to take it further. In this case we capitalised on the original shape, but created something something else entirely because of the decoration, colours, and how it is perceived.

The Crash Tigrée

SJX: And the Masse Mystérieuse is just fascinating.

PR: For me the Masse Mystérieuse says a lot about our founding principles, especially the importance of purity of concept. You know we have mystery clocks, which are already fascinating, but this adds on a complication that is very Cartier in terms of style.

The original premise for this watch was to push the boundaries of transparency and lightness, while the technical construction had to obey the original idea in terms of [pure] aesthetics, so a movement in a half-moon shape had to be invented. All the little elements of a movement had to fit that shape, but the weight of the movement was also a challenge.

SJX: Cartier hasn’t done something so complex in quite some time. Why did you decide to launch this now?

PR: This project started eight years ago. It seemed even more Cartier than any other complication, because of the aesthetics and the kind of magic you see in mystery clocks – where is the movement? The Masse Mystérieuse is magic but also not an illusion because you can see the movement, but the movement is spinning around. It’s something unique that expresses the facets of who we are.

The Masse Mystérieuse with the entire movement contained within the oscillating weight

SJX: You also launched the Tank Chinoise. It is obviously an old, famous design, but you revived it in a slightly different way. Most historical models were square with rounded edges and Breguet hands. This is quite different even though it has the same two bands [on the top and bottom of the case].

PR: What you say is interesting because it’s exactly the question we had to answer – how we play with different elements, how to keep it very much in line [with the past], but also make it different.

For myself, when I see a project like this, I approach it in different stages. Because I have so much [of the brand’s history] in mind, everything that is [new and] different can seem weird at a certain moment. The more you think of past, the more you are attracted to it, so you should be very careful and keep in mind that we should do something slightly different. So you have to take your time to decide – is this right or not right – and you have to be cautious with your first reaction.

SJX: So for watches like this, what was your thought process in deciding it’s right or not right?

PR: There’s no specific reason. Sometimes there are [new projects] that may not be my personal taste, but I have to make a distinction between my personal taste and what I think is right or not [for the brand and its history].

SJX: That means something that fits the codes of the brand, even if it’s not for you on a personal level.

PR: Exactly. That’s to escape from the danger [of imposing my personal preferences] as I told you.

But there’s another trap that I can’t fall into – an intellectual construction where everything is right [in theory] and all the little boxes are ticked, but the final result is not right. Then I have to forget all my knowledge of Cartier, take a step back and ask is the object beautiful?

SJX: You mention your knowledge of Cartier – you probably know everything, which must make it difficult.

PR: Never. I always say to people – especially those who are convinced that I know – that I don’t know enough. When we have an item or object that comes in for authentication, sometimes we say this is not us, but I learned to never say never, because no one knows the entirety of our [historical] production. I still encounter many surprises in what I discover in our work, so we have to be cautious.

SJX: So how does the process work when the designers come to you with a new design? Do you suggest something you remember from the archives?

PR: It’s more complex than that. Usually we agree very much in advance with the commercial and marketing people about the direction. But at the same time, we have a great proportion of our clients who are collectors, so we have to keep them mind.

We decided to work on [the Tank Chinoise for instance], and we all agreed that it was a good a good start because of the [historical] inspiration. We had to make the decision whether to be rectangular in order to make it different [from the earlier version]. Afterwards we worked with the designers in many different ways, especially because the proportions [of the rectangular case] were totally new, so the designers proposed a new design and how to integrate all the technical parts.

SJX: Do you draw inspiration from outside of watchmaking to create new models?

PR: Of course. This is a real point of distinction for Cartier. The library that Cartier puts at the disposal of our designers is not about watchmaking; a few books are about jewellery, but most of them are about architecture, applied arts of all kinds, interior design, fabrics. It’s almost systematic in how we take inspiration from other things. This probably helps explain the originality of Cartier’s point of view both for jewellery and watchmaking. 

SJX: Then I have a difficult question for you. Which watch from Cartier’s history that is not in production today but you wish would come back?

PR: If I the answer to that question, I will put you on the way [to our new launches] so I will not answer that question. [laughs]

I was telling you about the distinction I have to make between my personal taste and what I think is good for Cartier. Maybe because of these long years I spent at Cartier, I think Cartier’s style becomes mine. So there are many shapes, many shapes [from the past I like].

Sometimes we receive special orders for shapes that existed in the past but not anymore. They are very costly because we have to develop [a new watch from scratch] and all the costs of development are just for one watch. But some clients still go for it and they usually pick the most interesting shapes.

SJX: Turning to another aspect of your job, you also oversee the Cartier Collection of antique items and objects. Are there any items within the collection that have interesting stories that really stuck in your mind?

PR: I think there’s a funny story about [a clock]. We don’t have this clock in the collection, but it was a gift from [Igor] Stravinsky to [Sergei] Diaghilev. The two had a fight, Diaghilev took the clock and threw it at Stravinsky – but it did not break.

SJX: Where is the clock now?

PR: I don’t know but it’s definitely broken by now [laughs].

There’s another anecdote I like because Stravinsky was one of our clients and he had a Tonneau. The watch was launched in 1906 and he was wearing it. When Picasso did a portrait of Stravinsky, he drew the Tonneau as well, so there’s drawing by Picasso of Stravinsky wearing the Tonneau.

The 1920 drawing of Stravinsky by Pablo Picasso, with the outline of a Tonneau wristwatch visible on the composer’s left wrist

SJX: Speaking of celebrities, I noticed recently several celebrities wear Cartier watches like the Crash. The brand is often associated with historical figures, but less with contemporary celebrities. How do you think this will evolve?

PR: That’s an interesting questions because this is something we discuss ourselves. It’s very easy to see our creations worn by celebrities, but most of it is natural – we don’t pay them to do it and we neither do we lend it to them.

We do have some people we call “friends of maison“. Such people should choose the object they wear as we don’t like to impose anything on them, and the people themselves should be in line with our values. We like the idea that such persons chose us, and over years we built very, very good relationships with many of them.

SJX: Thank you so much, it’s a fascinating conversation. I hope to see more interesting creations inspired by the archives in the future. And I have a final question, what was your first Tank?

PR: The first Tank watch I got was a Must Tank mechanical with an ivory dial. My mother wears it now.

A member of Switzerland’s diplomatic corps for some two decades – he was the Swiss Consul General in New York City until 2007 – Raymond Loretan was tapped to become the President of the Grand Prix d’Horlogerie de Genève (GPHG) in 2018.

Just before the 2021 awards ceremony took place in Geneva, we sat down with Mr Loretan to get his thoughts on how the GPHG has evolved and where it is going.

Raymond Loretan making the opening speech at the 2021 GPHG ceremony. Photo – GPHG

Benjamin Teisseire: You have overseen profound changes at the GPHG since you took over as president in 2018. Is everything going as planned?

Raymond Loretan: So far yes. We created the Academy last year and it represents a big change in paradigm for the Grand Prix. It worked well with the 350 members but with some glitches, which we have now learned from.

This year, it worked even more smoothly with over 500 members of the Academy. No technical issues with the digital platforms and academicians were involved at all stages in the selection process.

But the goal is to double this number of academicians in the next two to three years. That’s because it is the way to assert the three principles on which the Grand Prix is built.

First of all is the Neutrality that has been questioned in the past. With this new way of working, this important pillar will be guaranteed.

The second one is Universality. The more people coming from all over the world, the better this diversity will be represented. And it will show that we are open to everyone and will increase our visibility.

The third principle is Solidarity. It means that brands need to understand that by entering the Grand Prix and supporting it, they show their support to the industry as a whole. This will of course take time.

BT: As transparency is paramount in such a contest, can you explain how the selection and voting processes take place? How are the watches selected in the first place, then for the final preselection?

RL: We are very transparent and explain everything on our website where the rules are shown. We revise them every year to improve them.

Basically, all academicians can propose any watch. Brands can also decide to present their watches directly. The fee to enter the GPHG competition at this point is CHF600 per watch. We ended up with more than two hundred this year.

Then we go into the selection of the 84 watches that will go into the 14 predetermined categories. It is done through a vote of the academy. There is another fee of CHF 6,000 to partake at this stage. This offers the opportunity to be part of the GPHG international roadshow, which is a great promotional tool.

Then the final jury comes into play. The jury is composed of 15 persons designated randomly, in a process supervised by a notary, from among the Academy members and another 15 selected by the chairman of the jury and the council of the GPHG. They vote on the winners for each category.

The winner of this year’s Petite Aiguille, the Tudor Black Bay Ceramic

BT: Then how are the votes weighed between the academy and the jury to determine the winners?

RL: This year, the votes were weighted as follows: 15 votes from the Academy of 500 members, and 30 from the jury of 15 members. Because the jury is the only group who actually got to see and feel the watches in order to evaluate them, they have an important responsibility. In that sense, they have to have a greater weight. We are still fine tuning the process here, but it seems to have worked really well this year. Everyone votes secretly, under oath.

BT: The jury underwent a major change this year, with a new president appointed as well as many new faces who have not been jurors in the past. What does this evolution imply for the GPHG?

RL: First we are happy to see new and younger faces. We also try to have a gender balance, but we cannot really influence this.

Each year we will evaluate how the process went. But for sure, we will change the jury every year. That is a guarantee of our first two principles of neutrality and universality.

We are still discussing whether to we keep the chairman for one or several years. It is a very pragmatic process.

At the same time, we will see if we need to change the vote balance between the Academy and the jury. Doubling the size of the Academy is also a dynamic process where current members co-opt new ones. It takes time to ensure that all members are fit for their duty. Every year we evaluate what was done right and what needs to be improved. It will take time to consolidate what we are building.

Winner of the 2021 Innovation Prize, Bernhard Lederer. Photo – GPHG

BT: The GPHG is often compared to the Oscars but does not quite have the media coverage of the latter. What do you think is needed to truly become the Oscars of watchmaking?

RL: I think a larger base of academicians is key because they are really the ambassadors of the Grand Prix. So the larger it is, the wider the reach will be. We are well known within the industry but quite unknown in the general public, even in Switzerland.

But what I have noticed is that the interest towards watchmaking is high even if the knowledge is quite low. I believe we have a lot to do on the communication side once strong foundations are established. But our financial means are limited. I think that we do a pretty good job with what we have, but definitely more communication with a non-watchmaking audience is our next challenge.

BT: Still the GPHG is a major event on the watchmaking calendar with almost all major watch brands participating, though there are a few notable exceptions like Patek Philippe or Rolex. What are your thoughts on that?

RL: Patek Philippe has won the Grand Prix in the past so they did participate in the past. Rolex is present through their sister brand, Tudor.

But I think that implementing our three basic principles of Neutrality, Universality and Solidarity will make more and more brands conscious of the need to be part of the Grand Prix. It takes time to convince the reluctant, but I believe we are on the right path.

The Patek Philippe ref. 5959P, which won the Complicated Watch Prize at the 2005 GPHG

BT: With your experience as a seasoned diplomat you are well equipped to navigate the often choppy waters of watchmaking and the big luxury groups that dominate. Do you think deeper collaboration amongst them is needed? And possible?

RL: The message I am trying to bring through is clear: the more we are pushing our three principles, the more we will become a legitimate, federative promotion tool for the whole industry. We are ready to play this role if requested. We have no hidden agenda, we are here to promote the industry at large.

BT: What would you like to see in the future?

RL: In five years I would like to see the GPHG recognised as a universal competition and the Oscars of watches. 

The 2021 winners along with Raymond Loretan (first row, extreme right), and GPHG Director Carine Maillard (first row, second from left). Photo – GPHG

BT: Finally, last year was a tough one for the GPHG, as it was for everyone. The awards ceremony was virtual and closed to the public. How do you feel about this year’s show? What are your expectations?

RL: We feel great about this year’s show. We are very happy and can see that everybody feels the same. We had a full house of people excited to come back together to celebrate an industry that is much more that just that.

BT: Thank you Mr Loretan for your time and straightforward answers.

]]> https://watchesbysjx.com/2021/10/interview-marie-laure-cerede-cartier.html Fri, 01 Oct 2021 10:28:43 +0000 https://watchesbysjx.com/?p=122710 Cartier has enjoyed industry-beating growth since current chief executive Cyrille Vigneron took over in 2016, with demand for both its watches and jewellery rising at a steady clip. One of the individuals behind the success of Cartier’s watch division is Marie-Laure Cérède. Having started her career at Cartier, she spent a dozen years at Harry […]]]>

Cartier has enjoyed industry-beating growth since current chief executive Cyrille Vigneron took over in 2016, with demand for both its watches and jewellery rising at a steady clip.

One of the individuals behind the success of Cartier’s watch division is Marie-Laure Cérède. Having started her career at Cartier, she spent a dozen years at Harry Winston, before returning to the French jeweller in October 2016 as the Deputy Creative Director of Watchmaking. And in May 2017 she was elevated to the top job in design, making her ultimately responsible for the aesthetic of Cartier’s watchmaking.

One of the first redesigns during Ms Cerede’s leadership was the Santos, which has evolved from the Santos launched in 1978 (far left), to the Santos 100 of the 2000s (centre), and finally the present model

Her tenure has been marked by a steady stream of hits, ranging from collector favourites like the Tank Cintree to the trendy Tank Must. In that time, Cartier has reimagined most of its trademark watch lines, including the Santos and more recently, the Pasha.

I spoke with Ms Cérède earlier this year to uncover the secret behind her successful rejuvenation of Cartier’s diverse line-up. Also present during the interview was Anne Charrier, the public relations-strategy manager for jewellery, watches, and accessories.

The interview was edited for clarity and length.

SJX: Cartier has a strong collection this year, both for men and women. And for a few years now, you have had strong offerings that were commercially successful but also well received by enthusiasts. How do you create that kind of success and momentum?

Marie-Laure Cérède (MC): I hope everybody thinks like you. [laughs] I think it’s our consistency over the last two years. Creatively speaking, everything is a balance between relaunching icons, but also introducing new signatures for the vocabulary of tomorrow. It’s all about working on this balance, with the aim of not remaking icons simply like there were before, but also improving them.

SJX: You have successfully relaunched some of these icons, Santos, Pasha, and so on, while balancing between old and new like you mentioned. You retain the iconic style yet these are clearly new watches. How do you keep the familiar look while creating an entirely new watch?

MC: It’s hard to answer that question because we don’t have any magical recipe. For every launch, we work with a made-to-measure creative process. But knowledge is a prerequisite to creation – we need to master our heritage. The first steps for each relaunch is clearly to consult the archives.

With the Pasha for instance, we went to the historical collection where we were able to measure and understand the volume of all the Pasha models over the years.

I thought that the Pasha is a “UFO” because within the watchmaking industry, you have two types of round watches, either classical or sporty. Pasha is neither, which is why it’s a UFO. It has extravagant attributes, like the push buttons, the crown and everything.

So we decided to look at Pasha as a combination of different pieces, to capture the best of its heritage within each little piece. We separated the pieces, isolated them, and then worked on each piece. And at the end, we gathered everything, put the pieces together back, and this became the new Pasha.

The Pasha launched last year. Photo – Cartier

SJX: With the new Pasha, you went beyond just the look. You incorporated the easy-to-remove straps and bracelets. Is how the wearer interacts with the watch also a key part of the design process?

MC: You’re right, we were thinking of this as well. We didn’t want to just relaunch this icon, we wanted to add something more connected to the current generation [of buyers].

For instance, the interchangeability of bracelets and straps was very important because it’s really a desire of the current generation to wear your watch on either leather or bracelet. Same thing with Smartlink [the mechanism to remove bracelet links] – the ability to easily adjust the bracelet to give your watch to your wife or someone else is also what the current generation wants.

From the archives, the original Pasha of 1985. Photo – Cartier

SJX: You launched the Pasha chronograph this year. It’s a complicated watch. Most, well, all of Cartier’s classic designs are simple watches. How do you incorporate complications into such designs without losing the original style?

MC: Working on small or high complications is sometimes a way to give the product another face. We took the opportunity with Pasha the chronograph to be bolder, compared to the hour-and-minute Pasha of last year that was sober and elegant.

With the chronograph, we have something very bold, very assertive, because we wanted to the audacity of the 1980s when the Pasha was first launched. For instance, we choose to take the oversized pushers of Pasha Golf for the chronograph. You see what they did with the Golf in 1987; it was a conscious choice to make the buttons oversized. So we reaffirm that boldness today.

Evoking the heady 1980s, this year’s Pasha Chronograph in 18k yellow gold

SJX: You mentioned the 1980s, a historical era and spirit contained in a watch. Is this historical feeling something you think about when designing different watches?

MC: For sure, because I think every Cartier watch has a mythical dimension, and we need to contribute to the myth and be connected to its dimension.

For the Pasha, we have the myth of Wall Street [a film that captures the period]. Such a watch was empowering, a symbol of success of the time. But not on the hour-and-minute version, which we wanted to be refined and elegant. On the chronograph, why stay sober and pure when you have the energy of the 1980s that you can inject into the chronograph?

SJX: So are there any other historical periods that you enjoy or appreciate that you plan to use for future watches?

MC: I think about the watch and try to capture the most emblematic era of each watch. We did that for Tank Must; the watch was relaunched this year, but it was long awaited.

What I love in the Must is the energy of the 1970s. The original Must was the moment when Cartier brought an end to the old, conservative idea of luxury, and replaced it with new luxury, where elegant models were offered at affordable prices.

And I think one of Cartier’s talents is really to know the right moment to launch an icon. Relaunching the Must right now? Considering the context of the pandemic, the economy, lockdowns – I think it really resonates.

Perfect for the moment, the bestselling Tank Must with solid-colour dials. Photo – Cartier

SJX: We have discussed the icons, classical designs that are famous, but sometimes Cartier launches new designs like the Drive, an entirely new model. How do you decide to look in the archives or start from scratch?

MC: It’s not a choice between either, it’s more that we have to do both – we don’t have to choose between the past or the future. We have to reinterpret our past by relaunching icons, but we really have the duty to introduce the vocabulary of tomorrow. But even with our newest designs, they have to be imbued with the past and reflect our archives.

Imbued with the past – the Cloche de Cartier that’s based on a 1920s design

SJX: In some other product categories, Cartier took inspiration from specific countries, like India for its Tutti Frutti jeweller. Do you also look to fields outside watches when you design watches?

MC: We’re spoke a lot about our relaunches, but we are also working on the future. The Mitten Watch is incredible but very simple; it really bridges jewellery and watchmaking. It’s a glove of gold mesh, so it moves on the hand, much like a golden fabric.

It’s really interesting for me because of the innovation, and not only in terms of technical know-how. But for sure the know-how was there: we were 3D-printing the golden mesh, so it could be thin and supple, and the diamond setting was also difficult – the true work of a jeweller.

But it’s also an innovative way of thinking of time. Because it’s easy to think of another way to wear a watch, by making a pendant or a brooch. But to have a new way of reading the time on the wrist is much more difficult. So this mitten introduces one of our visions of the watchmaking’s future.

SJX: And this was inspired by what era?

MC: No era. [laughs] It reflects a concern we have, one that is quite conceptual, but I will share it with you. I would like to introduce a [new paradigm] for watchmaking at Cartier.

In the future watches won’t be an instrument to read the time, because we can read the time everywhere. And a jewellery watch will be predominantly defined by its aesthetics.

So we need to find a third object bridging watches and jewellery, because we were a jeweller before becoming a watchmaker. And I wanted to introduce something very disruptive and shocking, to open the way to this [new paradigm].

The incredible Mitten Watch. Photo – Cartier

SJX: Now that you mentioned it, I realised the new Tank Must with its solar-powered movement and non-leather strap is a watch of the future that is radically different from traditional Cartier watches. Why was it created?

MC: Indeed, it was the ambition to have a fully-integrated product. I told you we relaunch our icons, but we do it differently. Just having a better design is not enough.

We wanted the watch to reconnect with the younger generation. And we saw that the solar movement and non-leather strap was really a way to have a sustainable product while bringing a new combination into the alchemy of price and the design. We have the three main elements here: sustainability, affordability, and an elegant, improved design compared to the Tank Solo – this can bring the young generation into watchmaking.

SJX: That brings me to my last question. Is Cartier going to make a Tank or Santos smartwatch?

MC: [Laughs]

Anne Charrier: [Laughs] We cannot speak about future creations for sure. It’s too early and we don’t know.

SJX: Thank you for answering my questions.

Correction October 2, 2021: The leftmost Santos (second image from the top) was launched in 1978, and not in the 1980s as implied in an earlier version of the article.

An all-encompassing brand that has something for everyone, Seiko is a 140-year-old brand with a dozen or so lines spanning the price spectrum. Its flagship brand is, of course, Grand Seiko, which has enjoyed notably strong growth outside of Japan after being spun off in 2017. Now we speak with the man who was a key part of this international expansion: Akio Naito.

Appointed President of the Seiko Watch Corporation (SWC) earlier this year, Mr Naito now runs the primary watch business of the Seiko group, having climbed the ranks over a four-decade career. He has held roles across various Seiko companies around the world – one of his earliest managerial roles was head of Seiko Australia starting 2002 – and was most recently deputy chief operating officer of SWC.

In that role, he was responsible for international sales and marketing. It was during his tenure that Seiko brands enjoyed notably strong growth outside of Japan, most notably with Grand Seiko in America and Europe – two key markets he personally oversaw.

Our founder SJX sat down with Mr Naito recently to discuss his plans for Seiko and Grand Seiko, while also touching on topics like complicated watches and the future of watch fairs.

The interview has been edited for clarity and length.

Mr Naito with Wako’s famous clocktower behind him

SJX: I first visited Seiko’s factories in Shiojiri and Shizukuishi 10 or 12 years ago. I like to congratulate you on how the brand has developed in that time, especially Grand Seiko – it’s very much a global luxury-watch brand now.

Grand Seiko really picked up after it was spun off as an independent brand in 2017. Do you plan to do the same the other Seiko brands, like Prospex and Presage?

Akio Naito: Seiko is a well-known brand today. We are celebrating the 140th anniversary this year and we are very much proud of its history.

On the other hand, Seiko as a brand may not be clearly understood by everybody, because the brand spans a wide range of products and prices, from affordably priced watches, to the high end with Grand Seiko.

But we have experience in juggling the different brands. Grand Seiko was launched in 1960 as an independent brand, but soon after it was merged into Seiko, and then it became independent again in 2017. And Credor has a similar historical background – at one point it was an independent brand.

At this moment, I do not have any plans – I don’t foresee any of our current Seiko collections becoming independent. But who knows? You know, in the future, as we are successful in developing the identity of each of our brands, then we may find it easier to develop the brands independently of Seiko.

A top-of-the-line Prospex dive watch, the Spring Drive 300 m

SJX: A key element of Grand Seiko’s recent success has been the very strong international rollout, especially in Europe and the US. I see from your resume that you have a diverse international background in markets outside of Japan. How has your own experience influenced the development of Grand Seiko and Seiko globally?

AN: I do have some advantage in my background, having experienced the business across the world. I have managed our subsidiaries in the US, Australia and New Zealand. And I have also been involved in the management of some other overseas subsidiaries like the UK, Netherlands, Germany France, Italy, Russia, and so on.

That’s where I became well-acquainted with people from different cultural backgrounds. And I also gained direct access to the consumers all over the world, which I think give me an advantage in managing Grand Seiko and Seiko as global brands.

SJX: Another aspect of Grand Seiko’s international development is that some regional or country managers come from prominent Swiss brands, for instance Grand Seiko’s heads in Europe and the USA were from the Swatch Group. Can I infer that Seiko is seeking to compete against established Swiss brands in the luxury space?

AN: Well, that also relates to my background. Five years ago in 2016, I was transferred from Seiko Holdings to Seiko Watch Corporation to manage GS in the United States and I moved from Tokyo to New York. There I came to be acquainted with a number of executives in the watch business and I was able to identify a group of individuals who I thought would fit our pool of management talent. So I started recruiting the talent with whom I could develop Grand Seiko’s business in the United States.

One of them happened to be with the Swatch Group before and is our current Grand Seiko Americas president. And similarly, when I took charge of the European market in 2017, I felt strongly that we needed somebody with a background in the luxury-watch business. Once again I looked into some candidates, and the best person happened to be someone who was previously with the Swatch Group.

But recruitment has been a big part of what I have been doing in the last five years, and I have recruited others who have a different backgrounds, they are from different luxury groups, but whom I thought were very much suited in our organisation.

The pair of “Soko” special editions launched in 2020 as US-only exclusives

SJX: You have done a really good job in growing Grand Seiko internationally, while keeping its distinct character as a Japanese luxury brand. What’s the secret behind that?

AN: For a brand to be appreciated in the luxury segment, it has to have a clear identity or DNA – it cannot be a purely-commercial or artificially-made brand. Fortunately, Grand Seiko has its own heritage, with that we can communicate with our customers.

And when I recruited from outside the company, I was careful about how [the new hires] understand our brand and heritage so that they develop the brand together, and do not bring their expertise to guide the brand in another direction. They have to accommodate their way of doing business by understanding the brand and its history.

SJX: Grand Seiko recently got more exciting, because you unveiled the concept tourbillon movement. Is this an indication of where Grand Seiko’s ambitions lie?

AN: The T0 concept movement was the very first complication movement from Grand Seiko. It took some years of dedication and hard work by a young engineer until we were fortunately able to come up with this concept movement.

But we have always had the expertise of creating something innovative – we do have the technological capability. Like our founder Kintaro Hattori put it, we are staying “one step ahead of the rest”.

It’s not that we are aggressively going into the complication area, as we have to understand the DNA and heritage of GS. Now this is a very critical time for us – how we can commercialise this concept movement as a Grand Seiko watch? This will eventually guide Grand Seiko into the next level of brand evolution.

SJX: So that means that there are plans to commercialise the movement? When will we see it?

AN: [Laughs] Well, I’m trying, we are trying, our best not to keep people waiting for too long.

Still a concept but coming soon: the T0 Constant-Force Tourbillon Movement. Photo – Grand Seiko

SJX: One of Seiko’s new launches this year was the Studio Ghibli limited edition. Japan has very strong pop culture icons, in anime, comics, Godzilla, Gundam, even the Nissan GTR – many have been used for Seiko special editions. Grand Seiko also uses the Japanese-seasons motifs on its dials.

How do you decide what aspects of Japanese culture should be incorporated into a watch?

CEO: For Grand Seiko, its brand philosophy is “the nature of time”. We are always inspired by the beautiful landscape of Japan, so we adapt elements of the natural environment into our products – that has always been what our product development engineers try to achieve.

As for collaborations that you have mentioned, they are found in different collections from Grand Seiko to Seiko. There are two routes for those.

First, we are constantly looking into the possibility of interesting collaborations with other Japanese brands that will create buzz.

At the same time, we are being approached by a number of start-up or traditional brands who would like to collaborate with us. We study and evaluate such proposals from outside.

SJX: I noticed also that Seiko often collaborate with independent artisans, especially those who do enamel and lacquer. Is this a conscious effort to support traditional craftspeople?

AN: Indeed, Japan has a rich history of craftsmanship. Because we are proud of our brands’ own craftsmanship, we try to collaborate with those individuals, who have passed on through generations their skills, and whenever possible we adapt those skills into our watches.

The Presage with a “Shippo” enamel dial made by a Japanese artisan

SJX: On the subject of you know new launches – Seiko was one of the major exhibitors at Baselworld for many years before it withdrew. Two years ago, Seiko announced its own event, the Grand Seiko Summit in Tokyo, which unfortunately didn’t happen.

Now it appears that watch fairs are happening once again starting in 2022. Can you share your plans on how Seiko will be rolling out new products in the future?

AN: Instead of having the Grand Seiko Summit in a real life, we did it online [in 2020 and 2021]. We were pleased with the reaction, and we were able to reach the media.

We are in a very interesting time in terms of how the business world will evolve after the corona pandemic. Whether people will go back to the old days of having a Baselworld and Watches & Wonders, or is it going to be totally digital?

What I think will happen is firstly, digitalisation continues to play an important role, and we cannot neglect the importance of continuing to invest into our online platform. We are going to do a lot of online events for product launches.

But at the same time, I think people are eager to get together and share the experience in the real world, to see products and exchange views. And in some fashion, this will come back and take place next year, hopefully.

We are now studying what kind of physical trade fair platform will be best for our brands in the coming years. We haven’t made any decisions, but I can say we are considering all the options.

SJX: Globally the high-end watch market luxury watch market has done very well coming out with the pandemic. I understand that GS has grown strongly in markets outside of Japan. What is your prognosis for the development of the luxury watch market, and for Grand Seiko specifically?

AN: I believe the luxury segment of the watch market continues to be strong. Even during the pandemic, we have been able to grow GS sales quite significantly, especially outside of Japan. There is a huge potential for grand Seiko to be developed even further.

The opening of a Grand Seiko boutique in the New World Daimaru, Shanghai, China in 2020. Photo – Grand Seiko

SJX: With the pandemic, many brands rolled out e-commerce platforms, even luxury brands started selling direct online. How will this be part of the Seiko or Grand Seiko strategy?

AN: Well, we actually started during the pandemic last year with our Grand Seiko boutique online that we launched in Japan, in Tokyo and Osaka, and also outside of Japan, in the US, France and some other key markets where we have our own subsidiaries.

This are not just another e-commerce platform to sell online. What we care about is how we serve customers and provide a shopping experience that feels like a real-world, physical store, through various means such as an online concierge.

We plan to roll this out more widely in the future. But at the same time, I still believe it is very important to build the brand on the basis of healthy partnerships with our retailers, especially as a young, growing brand outside of Japan, where we collaborate with high-end, top retailers.

It is a difficult but necessary balance to achieve: between selling direct online versus wholesale, and building a stronger relationship with our retailers.

SJX: Thank you for your time. I look forward to seeing the tourbillon concept commercialized.

CEO: [Laughs]

Correction August 30, 2021: Mr Naito has been with Seiko since 1984, and not for two decades as stated in an earlier version of the article.

Parmigiani Fleurier is one of the pioneering independent watch brands, having been established in 1996 by Michel Parmigiani, watchmaker and restorer extraordinaire.

While Parmigiani is a company of relative youth, its founder is a legendary watchmaker universally acknowledged as one of the most talented restorers of vintage watches and clocks. Mr Parmigiani has repaired timepieces in the world’s most venerable watch collections, including the Patek Philippe Museum.

Over 25 years of existence, Parmigiani has garnered respect for the quality of its timepieces, though commercial success has consistently eluded it. Being owned by Sandoz Family Foundation, Parmigiani has long enjoyed the largesse possible only with a multi-billion franc endowment funded by a Swiss pharmaceutical fortune. But now perhaps change is in the air.

Just earlier this year, Parmigiani tapped Guido Terreni for the top job. Prior to Parmigiani, Mr Terreni spent two decades at Bulgari, the second half of which as head of its watch division. And it was during his tenure that Bulgari’s timepiece business enjoyed a revival of the sort that Parmigiani’s owners are no doubt hoping for.

I caught up with Guido earlier in the year to discuss his plans for Parmigiani, including the product line up as well as Mr Parmigiani’s continued role at the company.

The interview has been edited for clarity and length.

SJX: Let’s start with an easy question.You joined Parmigiani in January 2021, at a difficult time for the world. How has it been so far?

Guido Terreni: It’s been a confirmation that what I thought of this brand as an outsider – Parmigiani is extremely interesting and has an untapped potential, because its technical content and know-how is huge.

The first couple of months have been a full immersion into the soul of the brand, trying to really understand it deeply. I found the 80 people that constitute Parmigiani Fleurier are loyal and dedicated to the brand. They’re very competent at what they do, the level of know-how here is at the highest level of the industry.

And the cherry on the cake is really to have the founder still with us. Michel Parmigiani is a living legend. He is a source of inspiration – and this is not just rhetoric. When you meet him in person, you realise Michel has an experience that’s of extraordinary importance. I have 20 years of experience in the watch industry but I never spoken about watches in the way I have with him. He is able to capture the essence and fine details of watchmaking.

Michel Parmigiani

SJX: And the challenges?

GT: The know-how alone is not enough today. We have to explain the product to aficionados and clients.

At the same time, we need to have a style that understands the aesthetic codes of the brand. So often it happens that very creative people go in many directions and dilute the style. You have to be consistent and have to have a certain discipline in finding the aesthetic codes that make your brand recognizable.

This happened in my previous experience, when I had the chance to integrate the Gerald Genta brand into Bulgari. When you look at what he did with his own brand, he wasn’t able to create an icon like he did for others.

So this is the work that that we’re trying to do here: keep the soul of the brand. Go back to the origins of the high-end horology. At the same time give it a consistent point of view in terms of style, while injecting a little bit more contemporary flavour.

SJX: You mentioned a couple of interesting things. One is Michel Parmigiani, who of course created the brand and really is an extraordinary watchmaker. Now he is at an age where he is less active in the business. How do you continue a brand once the founder starts to step back?

GT: Well, your question is very smart. There is a contribution that can be physical, and there’s a contribution that is more from a philosophical standpoint. The contribution from him is on aspects of watchmaking, aesthetics, and understanding the clientele.

Of course, he doesn’t restore watches like he did before. But he can still be involved in restoration projects, because we are lucky to have other younger watchmakers who love working with him and see him as the living legend who can guide their work.

Remember that Michel started in restoration right in the middle of the Quartz Crisis so you can understand what kind of mindset this man has.

It’s mindset that is very humble because when you do restoration, you have to disappear. You can have the best craft in the world but it cannot be seen because the goal is to admire the original creator. This understatement and high competence are coupled with a humble personality – these values and traits of Michel are the ones that we want to preserve in the brand.

And Michel lives next door, like 20 meters from my office. He pops in like a grandpa, and we just start talking.

Our job is really to drink at the source, to make Michel’s philosophy understood and known by our clientele. And our clients are those who are willing to move away from mainstream luxury. We cater to people who have gone beyond the trends, the watches that everybody is waiting five or ten years for.

The knurled bezel, a signature element of Parmigiani design since the brand’s inception

SJX: Earlier you mentioned aesthetic codes of the brand. Parmigiani has two eras of design, one is the Breguet-inspired Toric era and the other is the modern-day Kalpa, Tonda and so on. What is the future of the Parmigiani design? Are you going to go down either route? Or are you going to create something entirely new as you did at Bulgari with the Octo Finissimo?

GT: The codes are present but across many models. So we have to be selective, because we can’t do a brand with 1000 codes. The codes have to be the ones that understandable for the final customer and also make sense from an aesthetic point of view because the objective has to be beauty.

To answer your question, our plan is a little bit in between. I think we need to go back to the craft and excellence of the early days. But we have to do that with an eye on the world of today.

Because today’s watchmaking is shaped by people who are young, in their 30s and 40s. These clients and aficionados have a taste that is a little bit more fresh and a little bit more contemporary. So we’re going back to the origins, but with a contemporary flavour.

SJX: Does that also mean that the product range will start to narrow? It feels quite wide now.

GT: Of course. Today we have too many references but they’re like your children – you know which one you like the most but you still can’t choose because they are all beautiful. Still, we have to be disciplined.

We will focus on making the Tonda the backbone of our maison. But we will save some space for exceptional executions outside the Tonda collection because the brand has been built on more than a single model.

SJX: Recently you also launched a sports watch, the Tonda GT. Do you think sports watches are a key part of the future for you?

GT: The response to the Tonda GT has been very positive, both in terms of demand and in rejuvenation of the clientele. Against the scale of Parmagani’s business, it is a very good response. In fact, we’re struggling with demand to keep up the requests. I think it’s a starting point for us.

The Tondagraph GT, a well-priced chronograph with annual calendar

SJX: For me personally, the appeal of Parmigiani has always been the quality. Everything you do is extremely good – dials, cases, movements are excellent. But the watches are also quite pricey. You mentioned younger clientele earlier. So how are you going to bring the watches to a wider audience while maintaining the quality that Parmigiani is known for?

GT: Here I have to make an important point: younger doesn’t mean cheaper. There are many young people who are very rich. So the question is what is right for a younger customer – while remaining at a price point that the brand is accustomed to?

I would say that the brand has a right to start around 15,000 in either Swiss francs or dollars. In fact, 15,000 is already an average price point of the industry. And the sky’s the limit on the higher end.

Regardless of price, it is important to keep that level of content and substance very high. It’s a bit of a tension between the new direction for design, which is less ostentatious, and having rich content within – that’s an exercise that may seem contradictory, but in reality, it’s logical because we want to have a price point that allows us to succeed in such an exercise. Our watches are expensive to manufacture, because what we do is truly an exultation of the art of watchmaking.

SJX: So when can we expect to see some of the new models?

GT: Thanks to the integration that we have, development can go quickly. But the real advantage of being an integrated manufacturer is being able to keep the quality consistently high in 360 degrees. And it’s also being able to work as a team, instead of being in silos where somebody develops the dial, another the case, and someone else the movement. This will allow us to present an evolution of what we’ve discussed in the fall.

The detail within the movement of the Parmigiani Ovale Tourbillon

SJX: Moving from the watches to the business, something that has been much discussed is Parmigiani’s financial sustainability, because the brand is known for extremely high-quality watches, but its financial success has been less certain. What are your goals in that respect?  

GT: The objective, of course, will be to increase our profitability.

But instead of going towards savings and cuts, I believe that you have to go towards developing the brand. So I have a different approach from the usual cost-cutting.

SJX: That’s good to know. I really like the brand; I’m wearing a Parmigiani with expanding hands. The hands are an interesting idea that come from English pocket watches that Michel restored. Are such restoration projects something you’re going to use as inspiration more often going forward?

GT: I believe that restoration shouldn’t be used on its own. Because to copy an idea and put it in a in a movement of today is a shortcut. We have to go deeper.

We’re working on a wonderful piece right now. I can’t tell you too much about it, but it’s a movement from the end of the 19th century. We’re trying to give a second life to this movement. But it’s not restoration for the sake of itself. It’s trying to find a way to blend all its history with today. This reflects the work that we will be doing, instead of just transferring what was done in the past to today.

The early-19th century pocket watch with expanding hands by English watchmaker William Anthony that’s now in the Edouard & Maurice Sandoz Foundation (left), which was restored by Michel Parmigiani and inspired the Ovale Pantographe wristwatch

SJX: On the topic of movements, Parmigiani’s sister company is Vaucher, which is increasingly supplying movements to niche independent watchmakers like Konstantin Chaykin. Is that an intentional strategy to grow awareness of Vaucher and by relation, Parmigiani?

GT: No, no, I don’t think that’s the reason. I think it’s more a search for wider competence, because when you do only one exercise, you’re always working the same muscles. To have a variety of demand allows you to extend your craft. It’s in the interest of moving forward.

SJX: You mentioned the new launch in the fall. Beyond that, will you be taking part in watch fairs again?

GT: This it depends on the fairs. Because I believe that the industry needs a moment where the whole world comes together for one week and everybody showcases their brands in the best way. But the fairs have to understand that the brands are more important than the fair itself.

I haven’t yet understood the philosophy of Watches & Wonders. I’m going to understand it in the following months. Then I will decide if we want to participate next year.

With A. Lange & Söhne having unveiled a compact line-up of new models – just three strong – at Watches & Wonders 2021, I had assumed my chat with its chief executive Wilhelm Schmid would be similarly concise. But last week’s video interview turned out to be more interesting, because we went on to discuss Lange’s strategy for distribution and allocation.

Mr Schmid outlined the new models for 2021 (so far), and then detailed the tweaks to the brand’s retail strategy – in the face of overwhelming demand for certain models, and shortages due to pandemic-induced disruptions.

The discussion is worth a read for a Lange aficionado, but also more broadly for anyone interested in a well-reasoned explanation of how a watch brand has to balance all of the factors involved in getting a desirable watch onto the wrist of a client.

Wilhelm Schmid, working from home

The interview was edited for clarity and length.

SJX: Lange only introduced three models at Watches & Wonders, but they were all warmly received – I liked them myself. Tell us about how the new watches came about.

Wilhelm Schmid: So for this year, we decided to go back to the core of the business, which is always the Lange 1.

We launched the Lange 1 Tourbillon Perpetual Calendar in 2013, which was a great watch, because of its two big complications. But we also realized that we were running our Langematik Perpetual Calendar since 2001, almost 20 years, well, actually 20 years this year. That was the only standalone perpetual calendar in our product range. So why not do a Lange 1 perpetual calendar?

If you think it’s pretty easy to take the tourbillon out, and here’s a perpetual calendar – I’m sure our construction team had the same idea at the beginning. But then they realised the perpetual calendar was so integrated that we instead took the Lange 1 Daymatic base and developed the perpetual calendar on top of that. So here we have a completely new perpetual calendar.

And then the second was the appetite for Triple Split [in white gold] – you can imagine it was huge and a lot stronger than our ability to build these watches. However, [additional watchmakers] are now fully trained, and therefore we decided to come up with a second iteration of the Triple Split that’s totally different from the first one. It’s a clear distinction between the first and second iteration, because of the strong contrast between the dark blue dial and pink gold case.

The Lange 1 Perpetual Calendar

SJX: I noticed that probably this is the first time ever in Lange’s history when you launched a new collection at a fair and there is no watch with a black or silver dial. You have gold, blue, grey, and aventurine. Why the direction of more colours and more textures?

WS: If you go through the launches in the last 18, 24 months – take the Saxonia Outsize Date, the Odysseus in white gold – you see the more traditional colours, so we then wanted to launch some sparkle, something that we never did before. And therefore the combination of dark blue and pink gold, or the combination of aventurine for the Lange 1.

On the other hand, the pink gold-grey dial [of the Lange 1 Perpetual Calendar] is like the [first-generation] Lange 1 Time Zone that was in exactly the same combination but built rather rarely, and often discussed on [social media]. So we are going back to something that we haven’t done in a long, long time, because we know [the combination] is appreciated by our clients.

But I can also say that the year isn’t over. Go back a year: remember what we launched at Watches & Wonders [2020] and how many watches we launched later in the year, and you know that we keep a little bit of fun for later.

The Triple Split in pink gold

SJX: The Triple Split in blue and rose gold is, to me, more attractive than original. I really like the colour and it’s very unusual for Lange. But I read in the news this morning that German is imposing new restrictions due to the pandemic. How is that going to affect your production for the new models, especially since they will probably sell very well?

WS: It’s a challenge that we have been working on since we started facing something which human mankind hasn’t faced before.

The restrictions – specifically for the factory – are immense because the watchmakers can’t work from home. And they usually sit in a big room, many of them together.

Fortunately, we have the new manufactory [built in 2015], which has a very controlled environment in terms of humidity and temperature. So the watchmakers are safe, but we had to space them further apart, and they are not allowed to move between the floors [within a building] or between the buildings.

That limits communication, and it slows down production. It has an impact on all the little steps that make our manufactory go faster or slower. In this case, it’s slower.

On top of that, we have a rather young workforce in the factory; lots of them are women. With schools and kindergartens closed, we now work in shifts from six o’clock in the morning till eight o’clock in the evening to give them a chance to go and fetch their children, do home-schooling [during the day] – it’s all not very positive for efficiency.

So we are experiencing huge challenges in our production, and these challenges, I’m sure you’ve heard, have fuelled quite a few discussions about shortages and how we allocate the limited production.

SJX: I saw the lengthy discussions on social media and forums. There seems to be a lot of second-hand information and hearsay, so it will be good to know – from the horse’s mouth so to speak – what exactly is happening.

WS: First of all, you know that there have always been boutique editions. It’s pretty clear for us: when we launch a watch, we determine whether it’s a boutique exclusive or not. And if we don’t comment on it, then that’s the watch is status quo [which means it will be available at authorised retailers].

So for the new watches [launched at Watches & Wonders], it’s pretty clear they are open to the whole retail network with no restrictions.

But what we did in the past is to send watches to authorised retailers, whether they had customers for it or not. If they wanted it, we supplied.

Then we realised – and it happened quite often – that one dealer in the one country has watches that he can’t sell, whereas in other countries, we have customers that couldn’t get the watches, which I think was pretty silly.

So what we changed is simple: we do not want to deliver watches of a more complicated nature to sit in inventory, [so we will not deliver] without a client who wants the watch.

SJX: Here for the sake of the readers, I should explain the traditional model of third-party distribution. A retailer visits SIHH or another watch fair at the beginning of the year, where he places orders for new launches based on expectation of customer demand, rather than having actual customers for the watches.

So a retailer can go to the fair and say, ‘I want five Double Splits, 20 perpetual calendars’. And he will then receive the watches throughout the year. But he may not necessarily be able to sell five Double Splits and 20 perpetual calendars, which means the watches remain in the store’s inventory.

WS: Exactly, it’s nothing to do with bundling, nothing to do with allocation. We simply want to know who applies for such watches. I don’t need a CV and a bank statement. All I want is a name so that we know here’s a real customer, so that we can take that into consideration for production and distribution. From a customer’s perspective, that is probably the wisest move, and something we should have done that a lot earlier.

SJX: I gather what you describe is a method of removing inefficiencies in distribution [for complicated watches]. A retailer who asks for a Double Split will have somebody who wants to buy a Double Split. And what you’re also saying is there is no requirement as to how the retailer sells the Double Split. A client doesn’t have to buy 20 other watches to get the Double Split.

WS: No, as a matter of fact I don’t want that. In the peak days, that was exactly what led us into overstuffing certain point of sales with watches, creating problems in sell-out. As I said, we rather produce too few watches, so the worst thing we can do now is to send the few watches to points-of-sale that can’t sell them.

[Editor’s note: In the run-up to the financial crisis of 2007-2008, it was known within the industry that Lange was dedicating a large proportion of its production to highly complicated watches, which led to a glut of such watches once the crisis hit, particularly in the United States.]

A memory of bygone times, the Lange booth at SIHH 2018 when the first Triple Split was launched

SJX: I am guessing that right now, because of the pandemic, this disparity in geographical demand and supply has become more pronounced because some countries have shops open and business booming, while others are just not working out. But everyone everywhere wants an Odysseus.

WS: At the moment I think about 65% of our points-of-sale are open, which still means that 35% are closed. So yes, there are certain countries where you don’t feel the pandemic anymore – you probably live in one of them – and there is a stronger appetite there [for our watches].

For us, it’s not about the fairness because that doesn’t exist in the business world. It’s about where our customers are. How do we get the watch to the customer in the most seamless way?

And to speak specifically about the Odysseus – and it doesn’t really matter whether we talk steel or white gold, because the challenge is for both of them.

People tend to forget that we only launched the Odysseus on 24 October 2019, then we launched the white gold watch in April 2020.

Please, just remember what happened in between. The whole industry was shut down for a month, and the demand for these watches is gigantic compared to what we are able to produce, so there is no chance to [distribute it] in a traditional way.

At the moment, we just ensure – with some good success so far – that these watches go to people that we know, who have not been known for selling these watches quickly. I know that a few thousand people want the watch because they know that they can sell it tomorrow for twice or triple the price.

If you go to your authorised retailer, and you get on its waiting list, you will wait – and I can only apologise for it. You just have to be patient, because I cannot move all my capacity to the Odysseus.

We want to have a balanced product portfolio. We still have strong demand for Lange 1, 1815, Zeitwerk, and Datograph, but I only have the capacity to do 5,000, maybe five-and-a-half thousand, watches a year. I know it will take time for us to fulfil the demand for the Odysseus.

SJX: I remember when the Odysseus was launched, we spoke in the boutique and you mentioned that production of the Odysseus would remain a couple of hundred per year, regardless of how many people wanted one to prevent it from becoming the majority of output.

WS: I definitely will avoid that. That’s why demand is far outstripping supply. And again, I hope that everybody accepts my apology, because I really mean it when I say that I don’t want to upset people. But if you deal with something limited as our watches, you automatically upset people when you create something desirable.

SJX: I think it matters that Odysseus is not going to make up a greater proportion of output, since the brand is about more than the sports watch. But with the demand for the Odysseus, does that mean you’ll start with other models in steel?

WS: I think steel throughout the range is quite poisonous [for a brand like A. Lange & Söhne]. Steel is good as an exception. Steel is good if it’s built for purpose.

But why would we build a dress watch in steel when traditionally we are known for building these watches in precious metal? We are pretty clear we keep steel for the Odysseus family, but we don’t have a steel family.

SJX: You mentioned something that is worth going into – is any official policy in how the brand allocates the Odysseus?

WS: It’s pretty easy. If you’re a known customer at the boutique, you put your name on the waitlist and as soon as it gets to you, you’re done.

If you’re unknown to us, we will check as far as possible if we should supply a watch to you. So if you are a first-time buyer to us with no known history, it will become rather difficult to buy the watch.

But let I share something with you: a little collector panel [took place about two months ago] where we discussed A. Lange & Söhne. Some of these people were A. Lange & Söhne collectors and some of them were just watch collectors, but I believe everybody wanted the Odysseus.

I asked a simple question of the ten people, “Which of you already have an Odysseus?” Five raised their hands.

Taking into consideration that the Odysseus has only been in the market for 15 months, our allocation system is working quite well because the five who are A. Lange & Söhne collectors already have the watch.

Patience is a virtue

SJX: The strategy makes sense to me, and I’m sure also for people who understand the industry. If I go to Ferrari today and ask for a Monza or some other limited edition, they are not going to sell me one, regardless of how much money I have.

I predict the new launches this year will probably be quite desirable, well, maybe not as much as the steel Odysseus, but more people will want them than you will produce. Are you applying the same policy for these watches, that they go to existing clients who you know well?

WS: For the Triple Split, for sure [only to existing clients due to the limitation and demand]. I don’t want to oversupply the Triple Split to one store, and in another there are good customers crying to get it.

With the Lange 1 Perpetual Calendar [limited edition in white gold] – the watches go into the whole authorised-retailer network. So I hope that our dealers know their customer, which customer has strong purchase history, and so on. The same system applies for our boutiques, and I think good retailers will do exactly the same.

The Lange 1 Moon Phase is different, because at its price point, we want to see it in a window in the shop. The aventurine looks great, but comes with some production restrictions, because the dial is a delicate little glass thing with a tendency to break.

Still, I am convinced that this watch will be hugely successful, so I am afraid we probably won’t see it too often in a shop because it will go in and out.

Circa 2020, but still a hot seller

SJX: You have great watches and great demand, but you have said several times in the past – you don’t plan to increase Lange’s production substantially. Is that still true?

WS: I wish I could, but I can’t. That’s a simple fact. Without the pandemic restrictions, we may be able to improve efficiency. But to significantly increase our capacity we need to hire already-skilled people, or we need to train very dedicated people to become skilled people. Both take a matter of years and not a question of ramping up production tomorrow. There’s no [quicker route] because of the way we do the things. And if I change how we do things, it would be very short sighted.

SJX: Thank you for explaining all of this clearly. I think we now have a better grasp of the whats and whys.

WS: And people will still complain, but again, I’m not here to please everybody, because I can’t, not with 5,000 watches. Probably not even with 10,000 watches.

At the moment, we see a strong rise in the demand for Lange across the range. And we also see the impact of our strategy on resale values of a lot of older models. What we are doing is great for old customers, present customers, and future customers.

My job is simple – make sure that A. Lange & Söhne stays vital, vibrant. And with these hot watches, that is exactly what’s happening.